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	<title>Comments on: 10 Minutes of Truth &#8211; Pirate Ships</title>
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	<link>http://www.joomstew.com/joomstewblog/10-minutes-truth/pirate-ship</link>
	<description>What&#039;s Cookin&#039; in the Joomla World</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Wed, 25 Aug 2010 13:54:55 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Lawrence Meckan</title>
		<link>http://www.joomstew.com/joomstewblog/10-minutes-truth/pirate-ship#comment-62</link>
		<dc:creator>Lawrence Meckan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Feb 2010 14:10:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.joomstew.com/?p=13#comment-62</guid>
		<description>Amy,

No, it wasn&#039;t &#039;manned up&#039; for me. It&#039;s Andrew&#039;s claims of no moderation which have been somewhat rebalanced that I want to ascertain the root cause for, especially since the content of said posts didn&#039;t fall under any stated terms that Andrew has mentioned. I ask he approach me in his time.

I&#039;ll deal with the ATAAW stuff, of which 90% of your comment focusses, at ATAAW.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Amy,</p>
<p>No, it wasn&#8217;t &#8216;manned up&#8217; for me. It&#8217;s Andrew&#8217;s claims of no moderation which have been somewhat rebalanced that I want to ascertain the root cause for, especially since the content of said posts didn&#8217;t fall under any stated terms that Andrew has mentioned. I ask he approach me in his time.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ll deal with the ATAAW stuff, of which 90% of your comment focusses, at ATAAW.</p>
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		<title>By: Amy Stephen</title>
		<link>http://www.joomstew.com/joomstewblog/10-minutes-truth/pirate-ship#comment-57</link>
		<dc:creator>Amy Stephen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Feb 2010 03:09:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.joomstew.com/?p=13#comment-57</guid>
		<description>Lawrence - 

I am already posting behind you on ATAAW after 2 days on our site. You are already spinning your conspiracy theories. In the two days you have been on ATAAW, you have alerted members about your incorrect concerns about the assets of non-profits and how Google is looking more and more like our &quot;suitor.&quot; Yes, all linked to a blog about Elin&#039;s open source business model post. (See ATAAW for an example.)

If it&#039;s not conspiracy theories, then, it&#039;s completely empty and pompous lectures on software development methodologies that sort of sound like there is a point in there and how the developers should stop, delete everything they did, take your ideas and do it right. Otherwise, Joomla! sucks. (Read above for an example.) 

It is also of interest how you talk about all of these things you have supposedly demonstrated -- but to whom, or where, that&#039;s never clear. It wouldn&#039;t matter so much if you were just bragging, but you do it in insulting ways, claiming your invisible work is much better than what has been committed to the SVN, and how your work that no one ever saw was rejected, calling into question the ethics of others. (See above for example.)

If someone warns you that you have to behave and be mindful of not having a negative impact on others, you start claiming THEY are misbehaving and then, in a very offensive twist, begin acting like you are in a position to negotiate some sort of equitable ground with them (Huh?). (See above for example). 

Since it does not appear that you have changed *at all* and since you have decided to jump right back into our various community spaces using the same approaches that got you banned to begin with, we really need to warn people not to waste their time worrying about the things you say. (See this comment as an example, and the ones I have already started leaving on ATAAW, and the ones Andrew is promising on the Developer lists.)

Was that &#039;manned up&#039; enough for you Lawrence?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lawrence &#8211; </p>
<p>I am already posting behind you on ATAAW after 2 days on our site. You are already spinning your conspiracy theories. In the two days you have been on ATAAW, you have alerted members about your incorrect concerns about the assets of non-profits and how Google is looking more and more like our &#8220;suitor.&#8221; Yes, all linked to a blog about Elin&#8217;s open source business model post. (See ATAAW for an example.)</p>
<p>If it&#8217;s not conspiracy theories, then, it&#8217;s completely empty and pompous lectures on software development methodologies that sort of sound like there is a point in there and how the developers should stop, delete everything they did, take your ideas and do it right. Otherwise, Joomla! sucks. (Read above for an example.) </p>
<p>It is also of interest how you talk about all of these things you have supposedly demonstrated &#8212; but to whom, or where, that&#8217;s never clear. It wouldn&#8217;t matter so much if you were just bragging, but you do it in insulting ways, claiming your invisible work is much better than what has been committed to the SVN, and how your work that no one ever saw was rejected, calling into question the ethics of others. (See above for example.)</p>
<p>If someone warns you that you have to behave and be mindful of not having a negative impact on others, you start claiming THEY are misbehaving and then, in a very offensive twist, begin acting like you are in a position to negotiate some sort of equitable ground with them (Huh?). (See above for example). </p>
<p>Since it does not appear that you have changed *at all* and since you have decided to jump right back into our various community spaces using the same approaches that got you banned to begin with, we really need to warn people not to waste their time worrying about the things you say. (See this comment as an example, and the ones I have already started leaving on ATAAW, and the ones Andrew is promising on the Developer lists.)</p>
<p>Was that &#8216;manned up&#8217; enough for you Lawrence?</p>
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		<title>By: Lawrence Meckan</title>
		<link>http://www.joomstew.com/joomstewblog/10-minutes-truth/pirate-ship#comment-56</link>
		<dc:creator>Lawrence Meckan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Feb 2010 06:43:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.joomstew.com/?p=13#comment-56</guid>
		<description>Andrew,

When you came down on me with a ton of bricks, I was providing UX guidance and feedback based on my.. what 6 or so years of UX/accessibility/industry best practice design with the codebase at that point. The context and content of my posts still remains nicely archived by Google, not censored or &quot;burning the books&quot; by any third party. I&#039;m more than willing to be judged by the peanut galleries across the world for what I said, since it was neither offensive, let alone naughty pictures, or a &quot;conspiracy theory&quot;. 

Having a short 6 week UX cycle at the end of the dev tree just reflects on the professionalism of Joomla. Drupal has gone ahead in leaps and bounds with its UX cycles throughout development of D7, and part of the reason I posted what I did so that those new to the Joomla coding cycle understood exactly what they were getting themselves in for. The 3 years I did in team for both Mambo and Joomla regarding best practice design should reflect on that.

So 2 posts regarding the history of UX within Joomla, UX behaviours and design patterns and externalised testing for UX and accessibility wasn&#039;t enough on context, especially when Torkil was asking for wireframes, tests and the like, it seems. Supposedly, posts on UX and how to make Joomla&#039;s UX better wasn&#039;t for the intended purpose that Torkil wants. Anyone else see a disparity?

I feel it is offensive and a poor application of the Code of Conduct that you filibuster conspiracy theory at me, especially including taking a dig at my business. If you have a personality clash with me, just man up and say so. I am willing and able to negotiate some equitable common ground between us in order to mitigate it.

Perhaps it&#039;s the whole designer vs developer gap that you&#039;re misinterpreting? I mentioned at length in state demos, externalised testing during those two posts, and since then I&#039;ve done such things with 1.6 over it&#039;s dev cycle. You wanted solutions, and I&#039;ve demonstrated them already. There is code experiments that go along with these UX tests, you know.

I&#039;m willing to build common ground. I&#039;ve adequately demonstrated that by doing outside testing on the UX of Joomla itself, even after your moderation What are you prepared to do in response?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Andrew,</p>
<p>When you came down on me with a ton of bricks, I was providing UX guidance and feedback based on my.. what 6 or so years of UX/accessibility/industry best practice design with the codebase at that point. The context and content of my posts still remains nicely archived by Google, not censored or &#8220;burning the books&#8221; by any third party. I&#8217;m more than willing to be judged by the peanut galleries across the world for what I said, since it was neither offensive, let alone naughty pictures, or a &#8220;conspiracy theory&#8221;. </p>
<p>Having a short 6 week UX cycle at the end of the dev tree just reflects on the professionalism of Joomla. Drupal has gone ahead in leaps and bounds with its UX cycles throughout development of D7, and part of the reason I posted what I did so that those new to the Joomla coding cycle understood exactly what they were getting themselves in for. The 3 years I did in team for both Mambo and Joomla regarding best practice design should reflect on that.</p>
<p>So 2 posts regarding the history of UX within Joomla, UX behaviours and design patterns and externalised testing for UX and accessibility wasn&#8217;t enough on context, especially when Torkil was asking for wireframes, tests and the like, it seems. Supposedly, posts on UX and how to make Joomla&#8217;s UX better wasn&#8217;t for the intended purpose that Torkil wants. Anyone else see a disparity?</p>
<p>I feel it is offensive and a poor application of the Code of Conduct that you filibuster conspiracy theory at me, especially including taking a dig at my business. If you have a personality clash with me, just man up and say so. I am willing and able to negotiate some equitable common ground between us in order to mitigate it.</p>
<p>Perhaps it&#8217;s the whole designer vs developer gap that you&#8217;re misinterpreting? I mentioned at length in state demos, externalised testing during those two posts, and since then I&#8217;ve done such things with 1.6 over it&#8217;s dev cycle. You wanted solutions, and I&#8217;ve demonstrated them already. There is code experiments that go along with these UX tests, you know.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m willing to build common ground. I&#8217;ve adequately demonstrated that by doing outside testing on the UX of Joomla itself, even after your moderation What are you prepared to do in response?</p>
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		<title>By: Andrew Eddie</title>
		<link>http://www.joomstew.com/joomstewblog/10-minutes-truth/pirate-ship#comment-55</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrew Eddie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Feb 2010 23:32:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.joomstew.com/?p=13#comment-55</guid>
		<description>I should add that it&#039;s not so much that we &quot;don&#039;t&quot; have moderation, but that we&#039;ve never had to use it except for people not using the lists for what they are intended.  Virtually everyone involved, to their credit, uses those lists for their intended purpose.  If you don&#039;t use those lists for their intended purpose, don&#039;t complain if someone says to go elsewhere or in an extreme case you get a tap on the shoulder from someone.  They choice is up to the individual.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I should add that it&#8217;s not so much that we &#8220;don&#8217;t&#8221; have moderation, but that we&#8217;ve never had to use it except for people not using the lists for what they are intended.  Virtually everyone involved, to their credit, uses those lists for their intended purpose.  If you don&#8217;t use those lists for their intended purpose, don&#8217;t complain if someone says to go elsewhere or in an extreme case you get a tap on the shoulder from someone.  They choice is up to the individual.</p>
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		<title>By: Andrew Eddie</title>
		<link>http://www.joomstew.com/joomstewblog/10-minutes-truth/pirate-ship#comment-54</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrew Eddie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Feb 2010 23:24:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.joomstew.com/?p=13#comment-54</guid>
		<description>Correct Amy.  Adults don&#039;t need to be moderated.  Sadly, age is not necessarily the best indicator of whether one is capable of adult behaviour.  And all adults are subject to behaving like children on occasions.

Brian, they should be no issue with getting you unblocked.

Lawrence, if you behave like an adult and remain within the context of the lists (development) you can engage.  If you are going to be a nuisance, then I will make no apologies for coming down on you like a ton of bricks.  If you want to help with coding, or have questions about it, that&#039;s fine, but I&#039;m not interested in giving you a platform for your ever-imaginative conspiracy theories (you have your own site for that).  Fair?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Correct Amy.  Adults don&#8217;t need to be moderated.  Sadly, age is not necessarily the best indicator of whether one is capable of adult behaviour.  And all adults are subject to behaving like children on occasions.</p>
<p>Brian, they should be no issue with getting you unblocked.</p>
<p>Lawrence, if you behave like an adult and remain within the context of the lists (development) you can engage.  If you are going to be a nuisance, then I will make no apologies for coming down on you like a ton of bricks.  If you want to help with coding, or have questions about it, that&#8217;s fine, but I&#8217;m not interested in giving you a platform for your ever-imaginative conspiracy theories (you have your own site for that).  Fair?</p>
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		<title>By: Lawrence Meckan</title>
		<link>http://www.joomstew.com/joomstewblog/10-minutes-truth/pirate-ship#comment-53</link>
		<dc:creator>Lawrence Meckan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Feb 2010 01:58:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.joomstew.com/?p=13#comment-53</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve just tested this and confirmed that moderation is still in effect for the Joomla CMS Dev list.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve just tested this and confirmed that moderation is still in effect for the Joomla CMS Dev list.</p>
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		<title>By: Bad Behavior and Arrogance &#124; Theodicius</title>
		<link>http://www.joomstew.com/joomstewblog/10-minutes-truth/pirate-ship#comment-52</link>
		<dc:creator>Bad Behavior and Arrogance &#124; Theodicius</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Feb 2010 00:29:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.joomstew.com/?p=13#comment-52</guid>
		<description>[...] Robert Vining, newly minted chief spokesman and admin for All Together As A Whole is finding that out, right now. He writes about it in this blog post. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Robert Vining, newly minted chief spokesman and admin for All Together As A Whole is finding that out, right now. He writes about it in this blog post. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Brian Teeman</title>
		<link>http://www.joomstew.com/joomstewblog/10-minutes-truth/pirate-ship#comment-51</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian Teeman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Feb 2010 23:58:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.joomstew.com/?p=13#comment-51</guid>
		<description>Sorry andrew but thats not actualy true and I have asked for it to be unblocked</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry andrew but thats not actualy true and I have asked for it to be unblocked</p>
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		<title>By: Amy Stephen</title>
		<link>http://www.joomstew.com/joomstewblog/10-minutes-truth/pirate-ship#comment-50</link>
		<dc:creator>Amy Stephen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Feb 2010 22:57:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.joomstew.com/?p=13#comment-50</guid>
		<description>/me is glad to see Andrew agrees on that point. Adults do not require moderation. They can - and should - be allowed to direct their own conversations to successful conclusion.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>/me is glad to see Andrew agrees on that point. Adults do not require moderation. They can &#8211; and should &#8211; be allowed to direct their own conversations to successful conclusion.</p>
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		<title>By: Andrew Eddie</title>
		<link>http://www.joomstew.com/joomstewblog/10-minutes-truth/pirate-ship#comment-49</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrew Eddie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Feb 2010 21:57:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.joomstew.com/?p=13#comment-49</guid>
		<description>I&#039;d just like to point out that the 3 development lists &quot;on property&quot; have no moderation except for people wanting to post naughty pictures.  This appears to have worked well for, what, over a year now?  No moderation is no longer the issue for me because I know it actually can work and remain well above the grey area.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;d just like to point out that the 3 development lists &#8220;on property&#8221; have no moderation except for people wanting to post naughty pictures.  This appears to have worked well for, what, over a year now?  No moderation is no longer the issue for me because I know it actually can work and remain well above the grey area.</p>
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